Sunday, 21 October 2012

...And a Touch More On You-Know-What

[A late-minute addition to the previous thread, on the ineligibility of BHO for the office of the president.  Whatever the original blog was on (I've forgotten at this point...)  I can't stand it when people confuse the issue; either innocently, or knowingly.  This person's position seems to be a case of the former.  He just doesn't know the Constitution.  But then, a lot of citizens don't either; or we wouldn't have had this problem come up in the first place.
     The poster is replying to my last statement on my just-previous blog.]

  • Ohnwentsya says:
    I agree that the political parties system is on it’s way out. The nation state is dead in the water and has been for several decades, so completely new forms are about to be born. This time unlike the end of the 100 years war that led to the creation of nation states, just a few hundred years ago, we are likely to put more logic into what we create and how it works;-)
    I think the amendment thing was more to cover the fact that Bush I was born in Germany, his father was a German citizen, the conspiracy folks were unclear on whether his mother was too.
    I’m still not clear on how Obama could have been born somewhere else tho, even after reading multiple websites that claim he was. His mother lived in Hawaii when he was born and she was a US citizen, by birth.
    Any child born to a US citizen, even if it is born in another country is legally a US citizen. I have a good friend who was born in India to a Jewish American mother who was traveling at the time(it was the 60′s;-) She has always unquestionably been a US citizen, so I don’t understand what all the fuss is about for Obama? The law (to the best of my knowledge)has always stated that when an American gives birth the child is an American.
    His mother was born in the US from US citizen parents, he was born to her, while she was living in hawaii-and even if she traveled somewhere else, he still came into this world out of the physical body of an American which as far as I can tell has not been questioned.
    So unless someone has posited that she faked her pregnancy and Barack Obama is not at all related to his mother and maternal grandparents he is an American citizen. It really does not make much difference who his father is, where is father is from or where he was technically born, and I am not even sure why people made such a huge deal out of it.
    Tho it seems suspicious to me that the German guy born in Germany to German parents who later emigrated to the US and who actually worked for the CIA, (wasn’t he the head of it?) becomes president and no one says anything.
    But an American girl commits the “crime” of miscegenation by having sex with an African college student and gives birth to an American child(which is all he could be unless SHE had rescinded HER citizenship and then given birth on foreign soil), who happens to not be white and people go nuts about it.
    I mean, maybe it isn’t racism but it sure looks like it. MY grandparents were breaking that law too so I might be a bit sensitive about it, it really was an extremely dumb law.
    Considering the Constitution started being *obviously* trashed under Reagan and no one spoke up, and then the Patriot Act was like putting it thru a paper shredder, never mind that old court decision from the 1800′s making corporations into PEOPLE-I think our Constitution has a lot bigger problems than where someone was born that we could and should be raising some hell about.
    And as much as Rubio gets on my last nerve(he represents me in Congress) I can’t really see any reason other than sheer common sense;-) why he shouldn’t serve since he’s lived here all his life and he seems pretty American to me.
    It’s almost comical how some people come here and in a few generations after taking over start nitpicking who can come here, or what they can do-even beating up old Grandmothers at the border crossing, grandmothers whose own great great great to the exponents grandmothers lived here when the wooly mammoth was still grazing the great plains. If it wasn’t so sad, it would be funny.
    The document that inspired our Constitution, that is much older and still working well(originally implemented around 1100 AD) is called the Great Law of Peace. It has no providence for taxes, or minute govt control of anything. It does require nonviolence, and consensus for actions but it has never been altered in almost a thousand years. Funny enough it included women’s rights, and non discrimination against anyone (someone speaks for the trees, and the four leggeds in council).
    If he manages to negotiate this peace plan with Iran and Israel then I don’t really care if he was born on Andromeda and is wearing a fake skin he’s doing more to make things better than we’ve seen in a really long time. I want to see our world at peace, and see every living thing thriving and healthy, with no pollution, and abundant healthy ecosystems, everyone having all they need.
    I’m willing to leave an awful lot of nits unpicked to get to that point!
  • kibitzer3 says:
    Just to clarify, for the record, before we leave this: It is NOT a question of Obama not being an “American”. You obviously haven’t looked into the detail of this issue. The matter is that he is not   [N.B.: According to his own affirmation, regarding his birth certificate.  Whether it's fraudulent or not, it is what he is going by.]   a particular KIND of citizen; a particular kind that the Constitution requires for someone to be a candidate for that particular office – and no other federal office (except now, by C. amendment, the VP as well; which makes sense, because that person might BECOME the Pres). The person needs to be a “natural born citizen”. Which means   [N.B. At a minimum.  There are questions regarding both jus sanguinis - born of the blood - and jus soli - born of the soil.  But I didn't need to go into the latter question for the purposes of this thread.]   to be born of two citizen parents – thus, for there to be no question of dual loyalties or allegiances (and thus the requirement being for very good reason; ESPECIALLY as the person in that office/position is also the Commander in Chief of the military forces of the nation). There are also the categories of native born citizens – which only refers to where they were born – and naturalized citizens. ‘Natural born citizen’ is clearly a specific category of citizen – and that’s why it was deliberately put in the Constitution for that office.
    There is all manner of evidence as to where the Founders were coming from, in the debates on the contents of the new Constitution for the U..S. (before that there was only a document called the Articles of Confederation), when they came up with that requirement. There has been some legalese argumentation over it, but the challenge has been based on 1) a discrepancy in definitions in relation to British common law, which doesn’t and didn’t apply in America (applies only to British SUBJECTS; which Americans had just fought a war to unbecome); and 2) a subsequent, somewhat ambiguous Supreme Court ruling. But the Constitution ITSELF trumps any subsequent rulings. (And anyway, there are also subsequent S.C. rulings – and the writings of the men behind the 14th Amendment – that affirm the original ‘take’ on the definition of the term.)
    You may think it’s silly to get hung up on such details; but either a nation lives by the rule of law or it doesn’t; the latter option of which opens the door to tyranny. (As Hitler famously said: “I am the law.”) And that was precisely what George II was going for when he was reported to have once said, about the Constitution and its lack of authorization for him to do something he wanted to do (demonstrating the whole POINT of having a constitution): “It’s just a damn piece of paper.” That’s what he – and the Cabal – wanted it to be. And that’s what it became, in effect, with the nomination, and election, of Obama, for his not fulfilling the type of citizen requirement SPECIFIC TO that particular office. And it has been a devil of a time trying to stuff that genie back in its box; a situation highlighted by all the Executive Orders that Obama has issued, effectively going around Congress and making what are in truth legislative decisions, not his prerogative as the Executive. That’s what this is, and has been, all about. In sum: the rule of law, as opposed to arbitrary law. Which invites despotism.
    Which we are seeing as we speak. Obama has become a law unto himself. Executive Order this, and Executive Order that: it is a crime, of monumental proportions. And I for one won’t have it. This is MY country. Hands off, despots.
    And as I said above (in effect) somewhere else in this thread: A pox on both their
    houses. It’s time for the whole sorry lot of them to be turfed out, and things in this country gotten back to being administered under the rule of law.
    To learn ALL the lessons we can, from our various adventures in the realm of duality. Before we leave it behind; and go for Gold.


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